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Been reading some old posts and ran across the old Anti-Marilyn sentiment and wanted to explore that a bit.
I always dug him, and so did an awful lot of people in the clubs before he got his mug on MTV too much and the Columbine kids went postal. Suddenly everyone dropped him like a hot potato, but I recall people dancing like maniacs to "Beautiful People" and "Sweet Dreams" and he was spotted occasionally in those selfsame clubs.
In spite of his metalhead fanbase, I think he did some seriously ballsy work and has played the role of spooky star to the hilt. I think he lost his way artistically after "Mechanical Animals", but I think he blows almost everything that happened in the 90s out of the water. He made me feel much the same way I did when I first heard the greats back in The Day.
A decent budget and media attention doesn't nullify validity.
So what's the problem?
I always dug him, and so did an awful lot of people in the clubs before he got his mug on MTV too much and the Columbine kids went postal. Suddenly everyone dropped him like a hot potato, but I recall people dancing like maniacs to "Beautiful People" and "Sweet Dreams" and he was spotted occasionally in those selfsame clubs.
In spite of his metalhead fanbase, I think he did some seriously ballsy work and has played the role of spooky star to the hilt. I think he lost his way artistically after "Mechanical Animals", but I think he blows almost everything that happened in the 90s out of the water. He made me feel much the same way I did when I first heard the greats back in The Day.
A decent budget and media attention doesn't nullify validity.
So what's the problem?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 10:31 AM...but his new stuff is lackluster at best. (Only heard two songs, so far.)
Seems that he relied a great deal on the talents of his fellow musicians. -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 11:35 AMI'm inclined to agree. I think he's run out of ideas. But then, I think Robert Smith and Siouxsie had run out of ideas by about 1988. When will these artists know when it's time to quit or die? -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 12:40 PMTo quote Grace Slick, celebrating her 22nd year of no longer singing:
"Old people should be heard and not seen, young people should be seen and not heard"
In reference to Mick Jagger, Jessica Simpson, and her choice to walk away from Jefferson Starship.... :)
Well, that, and a firm belief that *NO* city was Rock and Roll, and that Starship was just producing crap she was too embarrassed to sing.... :) -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 12:41 PMEDIT:
*NO* city >>was built on<< Rock and Roll -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 12:52 PMSan Francisco was built on landfill. -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Wed, April 25, 2007 - 2:23 PMThe amusing thing is that, as you've admitted to, everyone thinks they were talking about SF, being that was their place of origin.
According to her, however, the song was written about L.A. (the Whisky, Roxy, Gazzari's, et. al.), and her primary complaint was that no city was built on Rock n' roll, Rock is simply too damn new.
That was FWTHHIW, I'm heading back to collecting random bits of useless trivia.... :) -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Fri, June 15, 2007 - 9:50 PMI am sorry. Probably I am an old geezer and I will get several complaints on my post. Marylin Manson is simply the product of good mass media. He does not add anything valuable to deathrock other than Virgin Prunes, Bauhaus did. But they did not have such big spotlights and money as Mr. Manson has. The good thing is that Bauhaus still rock, their gigs are a shot of adrenaline. It is really so good to know that they are still around, for else Mr. Manson would be considered a deathrock icon which is totally wrong.
Is someone ungrateful to Siouxsie and the Cure still? They may have not been brilliant since the late 80's (which I disagree for a part), but the created original genre per se, which can be imitated but unmatched. Plus, a Cure gig is a great event to attend even nowadays. Without the huge glitter, without models, without special effects. Personally, what message does Manson deliver? What value does he add?
Remember, I am an old geezer and the first album I listened to was "If I die, I die" by Virgin Prunes in 1982...
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Re: In defense of Manson
Fri, June 15, 2007 - 10:04 PMOne thing irritated me about Robert Smith: His collaboration with Blink 182, They are as punk as Manson is deathrock... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: In defense of Manson
Sat, June 16, 2007 - 6:42 PMI will admit I think Manson did shock the church and parents there for a bit. Which was nice.
But to say The Cure & Siouxsie have not done anything worth listening to 1988 is a bit harsh.
Disintegration & Wish were great albums! And I still like Wild Mood Swings, Bloodflowers and The Cure albums too.
Siouxsie' s "The Rapture" was excellant!
And you know what?
The Cure is coming out with a a new double album with Porl on it! And Siouxsie and The Banshees a new coming out with another album too.
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Re: In defense of Manson
Fri, June 22, 2007 - 3:56 PM"Siouxsie' s "The Rapture" was excellant!"
Amen to that! Forever is my fave Banshees song and is on that record. -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 1:09 AMYes, it is a great song!
But I wonder how the new solo Siouxsie stuff is going to be?
I would like to see her live, but the last tour I heard was a big disappointment. Also the DVD is too! :( -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 8:47 AMOn "The Seven Year Itch" CD she sounded awful. I sold it.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: In defense of Manson
Tue, June 19, 2007 - 11:11 AM<Sigh>
An acquaintance of mine once mentioned he loved Punk Rock, "like Green Day"
I calmly reached into the Echo, and pulled out a home burn from some Hawaiian ethno-oppression rage driven band I saw at Gilman street, and told him to listen to it.
The face he wore was something like sucking a lemon while simultaneously being fellated by a Hoover. It was clear to him, he had no idea what Punk Rock was, until that moment.... :)
I believe we were able to soothe his soul a hair with Social Distortion, Bad Religion, and the Adolescents, but somehow I don't think he'll ever look at Green Day the same, knowing the dichotomy of the Gilman sound, and Green Day's current sound.
Green Day and Blink 182 are good, but they are to Punk what Led Zeppelin is to Metal, merely a safe way to feel edgy. -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 9:42 AMYou think Zeppelin is 'safe'? and Metal is 'edgy'?
...you made so much sense until just then. -
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Re: In defense of Manson
Tue, August 28, 2007 - 12:13 PMTo flesh out my analogy:
Who's the Bubble Gum Chewing Poppy Favorite in this pairing:
Black Sabbath --------- Led Zeppelin
I mean, really, "Babe, I'm Gonna Leave You" vs. "Paraniod"
Yeah, of the genre, Zeppelin is "safe".
As far as the "edgy", how about letting a random sampling of 1970's top 40 be the reference point to the, then relevant, founders of Metal:
Led Zeppelin Elvis Presley
Black Sabbath Simon & Garfunkel
Iron Butterfly Jackson 5
Alice Cooper The Carpenters
I believe my analogies still hold true.
Blink 182 are Green Day are Punk Lite.
They are not Jello, they are not the unholy trio of Doe/Cervenka/Zoom, or the ever changing vocal lineups of Black Flag. They pale in "punkness" to their progenitors, and the closest they come is as a Beatlemania-esque tribute to the Adolescents or the Circle Jerks.
Don't get me wrong, they've made the 4/4 V-IV-I-I 180 bpm song a staple on the Radio, but it is glossy, slick, safe, and most importantly, keenly, acutely, and blatantly marketed.
"If you manufacture 'Urban Decay', 'Hot Topic' will come..."
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